The parting words of the man who came to measure for our new countertops on Friday were: “Good luck in November; I hope Trump wins.” Then he shut our front door. To be clear, I didn’t start the banter that ensued after he remarked that he couldn’t believe people were trying to tie Trump to Project 2025. His surprising comment was in response to a CNN report on the television about where the candidates were headed that day. His comment was unexpected and came out of nowhere.
Anyone who knows me, knows that I rarely allow suspect comments to go unchallenged. It’s the educator in me. I’m a huge fan of intellect, knowledge, and factual information and I don’t accept assertions from just anyone nor anywhere. I politely remarked that Project 2025 was written on his behalf and that members of his administration had a hand in writing it. I said that it is tied to him because his name is mentioned in the document hundreds of times. His defense of Trump made sense. He replied that just because someone gives you a present, doesn’t mean you have to accept it. I nodded that he had a point, however, we should also know that Trump hasn’t read the document, and I reminded him that members of his administration said they couldn’t even get him to read the daily national security briefings when he was president. They had to give him a short summary. So, he is publicly disavowing a document he hasn’t read because it is unpopular, yet its authors will serve in his administration should he be elected.
He then went on to say that he preferred how Trump closed the border and stopped the flow of illegal migrants. My husband stepped in, a very rare occurrence, and said he didn’t like how Trump separated babies from their parents without keeping track of their whereabouts. The man replied that Trump didn’t do that, but that people around him made a mistake. I jumped in and said that the documented purpose was to use this act of cruelty as a deterrent. He tried to defend Trump by saying that people who break the law deserve the maltreatment they receive. This man was clearly an immigrant himself, so I reminded him that presenting yourself at our border and seeking asylum is not against the law. Under the current law, we have an obligation to process asylum seekers and give them a court hearing. He responded that letting them into the country with a hearing at a later date meant risking never seeing them again. I conceded that point, but also reminded him that the problem exists because we have a broken system with a shortage of judges, causing long wait times. It was this law that prompted Trump to use cruelty to stop the flow until the courts stopped him. He praised Trump for the remain in Mexico policy that stopped the flow of asylum seekers into the country. I didn’t say it at the time, but that policy exposed migrants to attacks in Mexico while they waited for processing. And imagine how we would respond if people seeking to immigrate to Canada were told to remain in the United States until they could be processed. He expressed his fondness for Title 42 and I had to remind him that Trump was able to thwart asylum claims using Title 42 specifically because of the pandemic. He conceded his ignorance on that subject, so we didn’t even get to the bi-partisan border bill Trump prevented. I turned the subject to Trump’s character.
On this subject, he had little to say in defense of Trump because he hadn’t really heard about all the allegations except the housing discrimination case, and he wrongly believed Trump had won that case. The reality is that Trump settled the civil suit and had to agree to no longer refuse to rent his apartments based on race. I laid out a few of his sexual abuse problems. His response to the sexual assault remarks and his bragging about watching naked teenage girls at his pageants in a Larry King interview was to point out that Larry King was dead. I responded that King may be dead but tape of the interview lives on and he should watch it. He then excused Trump’s bad behaviors as being acceptable in a different era. His racism was excused on the same basis, that it was years ago, and times have changed.
And finally, we ended up with his satisfaction that there weren’t wars all over the place when Trump was in office. I reminded him that we were still in Afghanistan and that there are always conflicts going on that we don’t even hear about. He said he admired how Trump got along with Putin and North Korea as a show of keeping the peace. At this point, he was done with the counters and had prepared to leave, so I had no time to respond to how dangerous that actually was and how it simply meant that Trump would hand over Ukraine to Putin and Taiwan to China without objection.
I learned a few things about MAGA and Trump defenders from this conversation and others. First, I learned that they don’t like Project 2025 either but that they choose to believe Trump’s claim that he isn’t associated with it and won’t enforce it. In fact, it only has a 4% approval nationwide. Second, I learned that they have internalized Trump’s fearmongering rhetoric about migrants and are desperate to close the border. Third, I learned that they know he was a racist and a sexual predator and that he has poor character, but they excuse those bad behaviors as relics from his past. And finally, they want to avoid war no matter the cost to others in the world or that American isolationism is a gift to anti-democratic tyrants.
We didn’t get into the economy in this conversation, but I know many of them believe they were better off economically under Trump because of inflation and high interest rates. However, they tend to ignore the root causes of inflation and the fact that we have fared much better in our recovery from the pandemic era economic disaster than the rest of the world. They ignore the record low unemployment, the sky-high stock prices, increased consumer protections, and rising wages.
Even though I could not convince this staunch Trump supporter to change his allegiance in one conversation, I think the seeds of doubt were planted that perhaps another person will water and yet another will one day harvest. My conclusion is that it is worth having the conversation even if it may become a bit loud and heated at times. Allowing people to remain in their MAGA echo chamber doesn’t help them escape the clutches of a conman and if their numbers grow, we will not only lose this election, but our democracy along with our basic freedoms.